Question
Asked by
To ask His Majesty’s Government what actions they are taking in response to incidents of hate speech and Islamophobia at the Unite the Kingdom march held in London on 16 May.
No one should ever be a victim of hatred or live in fear because of their religion, beliefs or the way in which they choose to live their lives. In preparation for the 16 May marches, the Metropolitan Police Service publicly outlined the robust approach it would take to criminality, including hate speech. The protesters do not speak for the vast majority of the British people.
My Lords, I welcome the statement from the Minister, but I have to share with your Lordships’ House the profound anger and hurt that some of the speeches from the stage just outside here caused, not just in London but across the country. I will share my experiences from my own immediate family. One of my sons works for the railway industry, the other for the NHS, and they have said to me, “Dad, are people questioning our existence in this society, given your long service in public services?” One of the speakers at the march pointed at this building and said we need to remove Islam from this building. Does that mean people like me do not have a place in this society anymore?
No, of course it does not, and I will defend and support the right of people to enjoy and cherish their religion. That is what freedom of speech allows us to do. The noble Lord will also know that, on the day in question, there were 13 arrests for hate crime-related offences; 10 of those arrested were affiliated to Unite the Kingdom and they included arrests for offences motivated by race, religion, sexuality and disability. As I said at the outset, this is a fight for the soul of this country. It is not acceptable to have that type of hatred, and I will stand up with him to support the rights of people to enjoy their religion freely.
My Lords, Muslim women’s safety matters too. When will the Government announce funding for the safety and security of Muslim women? I know about the funding for mosque security and the helpline, so I am not asking about that. What about Muslim women? We feel invisible. By the way, I support Arsenal—yay!
The one thing that struck me about the demonstration on Saturday was the completely offensive demonstration involving three people wearing burkas and purporting to be Muslim women. I support the noble Baroness’s wish. I will look at what she has said. She knows—and I will not repeat it now—that there is significant resource going into protecting the Muslim community. We have also a new definition of anti-Muslim hostility which was put in place only in April this year. She has my support to ensure that she and other women like her who have the Muslim religion are allowed to lead their lives freely and openly.
My Lords, can I ask the Minister to confirm that the police will be very robust in tackling antisemitic remarks and actions at pro-Palestinian marches?
The law does not discriminate against individuals who are Jewish or Muslim. The law says that people who bring forward hate crime or encourage discrimination on the basis of a religion, or indeed a faith of any kind, face the full force of the law. The Metropolitan Police showed that on Saturday with the number of arrests it made, and will do so again, free of political interference, according to the law set down by both Houses of Parliament.
My Lords, women of all faiths find it difficult these days, particularly women of colour. You cannot say whether someone is Muslim or not because we do not wear a badge on our foreheads to say what we are or are not. We all get abuse. We need to change the tone and the narrative of how we are behaving, not only in Parliament but out there too. I think it is on all of us when we are debating this to make people believe that we are actually coming together to tackle this rather than trying to give it as antisemitic or anti-Muslim. Many of us who are not either are still suffering the same, but we do not have a voice anywhere in the debate.
The noble Baroness will know that the Government have a manifesto commitment to develop a strategy on anti-violence against women and girls and to halve violence against women and girls over 10 years. As part of that strategy, we are acutely aware that the type of violence against women and girls that is of a serious nature begins with disrespect and basic misogyny. Part of the challenge for this Government is to ensure that all women have the right to live their lives free of intimidation and abuse.
Can I put it to my noble friend the Minister that, given the events being described that took place at the marches on Saturday and the cost to the police, let alone the diversion of police officers from the task they ought to be undertaking, which is cracking down on the tide of crime in this country, it would be better to limit the number of such marches and demonstrations?
My noble friend will wish to know that, under existing legislation—and, indeed, under the Crime and Policing Act that was passed by this House with Royal Assent only on 29 April—the police already have powers to both ban marches and/or reroute marches away from areas of potential conflict and issue. That is a judgment for the police. It would be wrong for politicians to determine which marches take place and when, but it is right that the police look at public security and public order and make some determinations. They have done and will do so.
My Lords, there were two protests last weekend. One of those attracted widespread condemnation from the Prime Minister, the Mayor of London, the leader of the Liberal Democrats, the Greens and most in the Parliamentary Labour Party; the other attracted little or no condemnation. That other protest, staged by the far left, saw Nazi salutes, calls for Jews to be beheaded and the displaying of a sign calling Jewish people Nazis. One wonders why those very people who found it so easy to criticise one of those protests found it so difficult to criticise the other. Can the Minister perhaps give a guarantee that legitimate criticism of religion, which is a fundamental aspect of free speech, is always maintained?
The right to criticise religion is perfectly acceptable and in order. But again, I put it to the noble Lord that those rights to criticise also come with responsibilities. There is a clear definition in law about what is regarded as abuse, what is discrimination and what is intimidation and harassment. In both cases, if such instances are determined by the police, then the police will take action and, as on Saturday, arrests will be made. Some arrests were made in relation to the noble Lord’s question and some were in relation to the initial demonstration raised by the noble Lord, Lord Mohammed of Tinsley, so the police act fairly and the legislation is set down. I want to see a fair and open society where people can enjoy their religion and criticise political activity and/or religion, as well as states, at will, but within a limit.
My Lords, it is the turn of the Cross Benches next; then we will go to the Liberal Democrat Benches.
My Lords, all communities seen as different experience prejudice. There are no comparative statistics, properly gathered, to show that one community suffers more than others from this hate crime. It is visible difference that is the causing factor. Does the Minister agree that all communities should be protected equally and that there should not be a special difference set aside for one community, such as the definition of anti-Muslim hate crime? Why not anti-Sikh, anti-Hindu or anti-Buddhist hate crime? Does he further agree that the law already protects different communities? It is already there in law, and if other communities are hurt, that should also be looked at.
The Government treat all forms of hate crime equally seriously. There is no hierarchy of victims. The police and the CPS will make decisions based on the facts and legal threshold in each case. There are definitions of types of harassment, and definitions of types of assurance for both Jewish and Muslim communities, but the Government and the police will treat all hate crime extremely seriously.
My Lords, at the rally last Saturday led by the convicted criminal Tommy Robinson, some of the hate speech we heard was specifically about Muslims, such as “It’s time for Muslims to leave the country”. Sadly, they are completely focused on attacking the Muslim community. History teaches us where such language can lead. British Muslims helped to build this country and serve it by teaching in schools, while over 89,000 Muslim staff work in our NHS, so I say that this is our country. My question is: why is this disgraceful hate speech and Islamophobia tolerated when it comes to British Muslims, and even defended, when the equivalent aimed at any other group would rightly be met with condemnation, prosecution and political outrage?
I say to the noble Baroness that it is not tolerated. The Prime Minister said on Saturday that this is a
“fight for the soul of the country”
and condemned the speeches made at that demonstration. The police have taken action accordingly. Indeed, the Government banned certain individuals from entering the country because of concerns about further activity following those speeches. This is not being tolerated. Muslims have a right to live, contribute and participate in our society free of intimidation and free of harassment. The Government, along with the Jewish community, will make sure that those individuals enjoy their lives free of that intimidation.